Peter Hook: ‘Rock ‘n’ roll is littered with idiots – and I count myself as one of them’
There aren’t many bass players who can sell out substantial venues under their own name – with the notable exceptions of Paul McCartney and Sting, of course.
But that’s exactly what Peter Hook – a founding member of Joy Division and New Order, as well as co-owner of The Hacienda nightclub and music venue – did at the end of March when he packed out the Junction’s J1 with his backing band, The Light.
Taking a break from vacuuming to speak to the Cambridge Independent, the highly-respected musician says the gig was “fantastic”, adding: “The sound was a bit of a funny one, but that was more a technical point. The audience was great, we sold out – really I couldn’t ask for more.”
Hacienda Classical, consisting of some of the finest club classics all performed by a full orchestra and additional musicians, has opened Glastonbury Festival’s Pyramid Stage, performed at the Isle of Wight and Kendal Calling festivals, among others, and staged concerts at London’s Royal Albert Hall and Manchester’s Castlefield Bowl.
The acclaimed live orchestral clubbing series, featuring DJ Graeme Park – one of the original founders of the UK's rave/club scene – Manchester Camerata orchestra and special guests, sees musical director Tim Crooks lead the collective on stage in performing well-known favourites and new versions of club classics, all mixed continuously into one non-stop set.
Peter and co, who have now been doing this for eight years, are set to appear as part of this year’s Newmarket Nights series of concerts at Newmarket’s July Course on Friday, July 28. “I must admit, it’s a beautiful part of England so I’m looking forward to it,” he says.
The Salford-born sixty-something laughs at the suggestion that he seems busier than ever these days. “I must admit that since New Order split up it has been more-or-less like this; the thing about New Order was that they did very little,” he notes.
“I think they’ve actually worked more in their 50s and 60s than we ever did in our 30s and 40s, which is quite strange. So once I was let free, shall we say, off the leash and able to do a lot of the things that I wanted to do, it was all systems go – although sometimes I do look round at the ripe old age of what I am now and think, ‘I should be taking it easy!’.
“I mean it’s nice to be appreciated for things that we’ve done. They were revolutionary and they were groundbreaking and they were unique. So the achievement is still worth celebrating, I think.”
So one of the biggest names in the Manchester music scene – both as a musician and as co-owner of the famed Hacienda – doesn’t miss being in a band?
“Well I’m in a band,” he laughs, “and now I have much more freedom… It was quite an odd thing, I’m sure if you write about bands you know that they’re weird entities and everything’s a compromise.
“So it’s that odd thing about working for yourself when things don’t become a compromise, it’s very intoxicating, but no, I don’t miss them!”
Joy Division formed in 1976 and disbanded in 1980 following the suicide of their troubled frontman, Ian Curtis. Peter and bandmates Bernard Sumner and Stephen Morris then went on to form New Order with keyboard player and guitarist Gillian Gilbert.
The band’s many hits include Blue Monday, True Faith and, of course, World in Motion, the official England football song for the 1990 World Cup and, for me, the greatest football anthem of them all (yes, I like it even more than Three Lions).
New Order called it a day in 2007, before later reforming in 2011, this time without Peter Hook. It’s often been documented how difficult it is to be in a band, living so closely alongside each other and spending so much time together for such a long period of time – and in the case of Peter, Bernard (also known as ‘Barney’) and Stephen, that period spanned more than 30 years.
“In many ways, sometimes it was impossible,” reflects Peter, who was married to the late actress and comedian Caroline Aherne.
“People always get this impression that, like Morecambe and Wise, we all used to live above The Hacienda and all sleep in the same bed, which strictly wasn’t the truth, but I hate to be the one who bursts the pantomime.
“It was a job and at the time it was a very unhappy job for many reasons, and I felt that we weren’t celebrating the ideals and the heritage and especially the attitude towards the music that we were when we started. I felt that we’d lost our specialness and it’s a very funny thing…
“I mean my therapist keeps telling me, ‘You need to grieve!’ but being busy, I suppose, takes your mind off grieving, doesn’t it? So I’m delighted in the Hacienda Classical we’ve found a wonderful outlet and flag to bear for the wonderful ideas and for the wonderful times that we had in The Hacienda.
“The music around that period, from ’82 to ’97, is legendary. A lot of one-hit wonders, but when you bring all those one-hit wonders together you have something that’s immensely evocative and mentally powerful. I was listening to the set yesterday.
“It’s actually run like a club, so it’s like a club mix, and I love that because you can really just get into the intensity of it and it reminds me of those heady days in The Hacienda when we had no cares whatsoever, apart from whether we would survive the night!”
Peter suggests that all of the “magic” music that was made at The Hacienda is “not diminishing”.
“It’s actually getting stronger and stronger – and it’s wonderful when we play to feature the artists that did these records,” he continues.
“They still have careers and we’re able to bring them together and it just gives it a specialness and a power that is mind-boggling.”
On that whole Manchester music scene, which has been the subject of numerous books and movies, Peter observes: “It was very fresh, it felt very revolutionary, and also for the people involved it felt very inclusive.
“One of the wonderful things was that it had no VIP section so everybody was together.”
One darker side of the scene was the emergence of the drug Ecstasy. “You thought the world loved you and you loved the world – of course when you woke up the morning after, you realised the world hadn’t changed at all! It certainly hadn’t had any of its problems solved, so yeah, we were chasing unicorns with that one.”
The affable musician makes it clear that he is in no way advocating the use of drugs. “Ecstasy, like any drug, is dangerous,” he says, “and I think the thing is is that we were idiots in the way that we sort of glorified its use.
“It was a very, very stupid thing to do; I hated it beyond comprehension when I watched the whole scene fall – it was basically smoke and mirrors, wasn’t it?
“It’s very, very dangerous and if anything, all of us that were involved in it now look at the other side of it and try and look after people’s mental health and make people realise that anything like that is just not good. It doesn’t work and it causes more problems than it could ever solve.”
He adds: “Rock ‘n’ roll is littered with idiots, and I count myself very much as one of them. I was watching a documentary on Phil Spector this morning, and I was looking at it and thinking, ‘Oh my God, the way that we all buy into this fairytale and become deluded in many ways is actually shocking’.
“I was watching Phil Spector and I was shocked, and I always say to my wife the same thing: ‘I’m glad I wasn’t like that’ and she says ‘No, you weren’t’ and I go ‘Wasn’t I?’ and she goes ‘No, you were worse!’ But we’re still here, that’s the main thing.”
Peter co-owned The Hacienda with Tony Wilson, a graduate of Jesus College, Cambridge, and one of the founders of the equally iconic Factory Records, and previously published a book titled The Hacienda: How Not to Run a Club.
“I was co-owner and I was also the co-manager for about 10, 11 years,” he recalls, “I mean at one point I almost gave up my career in music to go and manage The Hacienda full time when it needed guidance, and I’m very glad I didn’t, to be honest.
“Looking back now, I’m just flabbergasted with the things that we put up with, but I think it’s like being caught in a whirlpool…
“But now we’re able to celebrate the positive aspects, which is the wonderfulness of the music, the way it brings people together, and relive those glory days, I suppose. Maybe it’s survivor’s guilt?”
The story of The Hacienda and Factory Records was memorably told in the 2002 film 24 Hour Party People, starring Steve Coogan as Tony Wilson and Ralf Little as Peter Hook, listed in the credits as ‘Hooky’ (his nickname).
Hooky notes that he was involved in making this film and also Control (2007), which depicted the rise of Joy Division and the tragically short life of singer Ian Curtis, right from the start.
“Michael Winterbottom [director of 24 Hour Party People] felt that what we’d done and what we’d achieved was completely farcical,” he reveals, “because his opinion was ‘How have idiots like you managed to do this?’
“And he wanted to celebrate that farcical side, which was why he used all the comedians. He felt that we were all comics in our own way.
“Control was completely the opposite. Anton Corbijn [the director] is a very, very serious person; he likes to get his message across with great gravity, so it was a completely different look, and it was mainly Joy Division’s history.
“Factory Records and The Hacienda sort of crept in but didn’t have much effect on that film, and Anton was meticulous and very perfectionist in his planning. He paid for the whole film himself. He mortgaged his house to redo that film, he really put everything on the line because he believed in Joy Division and Ian Curtis’ story so much.
“So the two had a completely different feel, but both told a great story. That scream of Debbie Curtis in Control, considering I wasn’t there at that moment, will live with me forever.”
Peter thought the portrayal of Ian Curtis in both films was good. “It’s one of those weird things; when I look at 24 Hour Party People, [Sean Harris] was very, very good as Ian, but the actual plot of the film is like a big joke, isn’t it?
“I appreciated the joke, but when you watch Control, I was actually thinking, ‘Oh, my God’ because Anton Corbijn schooled the actors. He actually sat with them for days and said ‘You are now Peter Hook and I want you to act like Peter Hook’ and he’d sit with them and go, ‘That’s not what Hooky would do, this is what Hooky would do’ because we know each other so well.
“So he worked right from the bottom up to make sure the characters were just like us, and my God, when I watched it I thought it was like watching Steve and Barney in real life.”
Looking ahead to the Newmarket gig, Hooky, who believes that he “couldn’t be in better company” than with his fellow Hacienda Classical members, says: “We’re just all out to have a good time together, and a very passionate, intense and hopefully rewarding look at the greatest music ever made.”
[Read more: Happy Mondays roll back the years at Cambridge Corn Exchange]
See Hacienda Classical at Newmarket Nights on Friday, July 28. Tickets, which start from £36, are available now online at thejockeyclub.co.uk/live.
